Jury `wanted to do the right thing,' forewoman says

By KIM MAIALETTI
Courier-Post Staff
CAMDEN

During breaks in deliberations over the fate of former Mayor Milton Milan, jury forewoman Gayle Carr would watch from a third-floor window in the federal courthouse as city children crossed the street.

She watched, knowing the decisions she and 11 others made would affect future and the future of all 82,000 people who live in this shattered city.

"I wanted the best for them," said Carr, 48. "I knew they deserved somebody to look up to, who is honest with them, who puts them first as a representative, as the mayor of Camden."

Carr was one of eight women and four men who found Milan guilty Thursday on 14 of 19 charges, including accepting payoffs from the Mafia, taking kickbacks from city contractors and laundering illegal drug profits.

In a two-hour interview Friday, she told the Courier- Post about how a passionate jury, determined to do the right thing, reached its final decision and how she cried after reading the verdict to a packed courtroom.

When she was selected as a juror, Carr knew almost nothing about Milan and the accusations swirling about the city.

"I had no clue," admitted Carr, as she sat in a back booth in Olga's Diner in Marlton eating hot cakes and sipping coffee. "I did not follow the story. I remember just catching a glimpse on the news, but I really didn't pay attention."

That all changed Nov. 4, the first day of opening statements.

"The reality of seeing the news vans and the press there the first day, it kind of hit me this was going to be a big case."

For five weeks, jurors listened to testimony from drug dealers, city employees, friends of the ex-mayor, business associates and even the former head of the Philadelphia/ South Jersey Mafia, Ralph Natale.

They took notes.

They paid careful attention.

They weighed every word.

"At times some of the testimony was very disturbing," Carr said. "The testimony of Ralph Natale was very gripping. It' s one thing to read about incidents in the newspaper or in a book or even to see it on TV. It's another thing to be sitting 30 feet from the person and hearing it right from them."

Carr believed Natale when he said he planned to use Milan to "take half of Camden."

"I personally found him to be credible," said Carr, pausing often to choose her words carefully. "There was no hesitation in him telling all of the details of his life."

was the focus of debate during deliberations.

"Close to half of our discussions centered around Ralph Natale and the whole situation there as to whether or not money was being taken from the LCN (La Cosa Nostra)," Carr explained. "It was very tedious. At times we were very loud, we were very passionate, but it made me feel confident we were reaching the right decisions."

While she believed Natale, Carr said neither she nor her fellow jurors trusted former municipal prosecutor Joseph Caruso. Milan was accused of conspiring with Caruso to solicit a bribe from municipal defender Elliott Stomel in exchange for Stomel's reappointment in 1997 to a $30,000-a- year part-time post.

The jury found Milan not guilty on those charges.

"There was so much discrepancy in what he told the FBI and what he told us, we did not feel he was credible," Carr said.

Once inside the deliberation room, the jurors systematically examined the evidence, determined to do their job fairly.

"Obviously, since there were 19 counts, it was not easy," Carr said. "The first day we more or less had a little rap session. It was just a release period."

Then, starting with the first count, the jury went down the list of charges. They debated each one and moved on to the next without making any immediate decisions.

"We went through and we went back," Carr said. "We kept going back. It was actually late Thursday or early Friday ( Dec. 14 and 15) that we made a decision on one count. Everyone wanted to do the right thing.

"I feel proud to have been with a group of people that were that concerned and diligent."

The jury deliberated for seven days before returning its verdict - guilty on 14 counts, innocent on two and hopelessly deadlocked on three.

Fully expecting Judge Joel A. Pisano to direct the jury to continue deliberating the counts on which it was stuck, Carr left the verdict sheet in the deliberation room when he called jurors into the courtroom.

"We were prepared to stay there and make the right decision no matter how long it took," Carr said. "But when we exhausted our resources three and four times over and everybody stood firm on what they believed, it was clear that no matter how long we stayed there the outcome would have been the same."

The judge excused Carr to retrieve the verdict sheet. Before she returned she took a quick moment for herself.

"I signed the verdict paper, dated it, and I told the marshal to give me a minute to take a few deep breaths," Carr recounted. "So I took my few deep breaths and then went out and focused on what I had to do."

Minutes later, she was in the ladies room crying, releasing the tension that had built over the past two months.

"In one way, I felt bad knowing we were reading the fate of someone's life," Carr said. "On the other hand, I felt good we were reading the fate of the city. I just really wish the people of Camden could get a leader that would really help get them out of the hole."